A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

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nallath
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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by nallath » March 1st, 2017, 1:37 pm

LePaul wrote:I suspect, for a lot of old timers....there is concern we are seeing what happened with Makerbot all over again.

I think Ultimaker is much smarter than that.
I understand the fear. But being open source is a very strong part of the culture within Ultimaker. Makerbot was smaller than we were when they made the change. It's a whole lot easier to change the culture of a small group of people than it is to change the culture of a large group. Especially if for quite a few it has been their culture for years.

So even if someone in Ultimaker would actually want to change this (Which I doubt), it would be a helluva problem to do so ;)

reibuehl
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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by reibuehl » March 1st, 2017, 1:39 pm

I also think that a lot of moves we see recently from Ultimaker reminds one of Makerbot. :(
Reiner.

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by nallath » March 1st, 2017, 1:54 pm

reibuehl wrote:I also think that a lot of moves we see recently from Ultimaker reminds one of Makerbot. :(
Such as? The warranty? It's being revised at the moment. You guys are being heard ;)

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by reibuehl » March 1st, 2017, 2:02 pm

Yes and the print cores, the NFC coded spools, the targeting the "professional market" with prices and marketing activities. That all by itself is nothing big but it adds up. All little tiny clouds that get closer and closer together and maybe in the end form a angry, dark rain cloud with a blue "S" on it...
Reiner.

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Neotko
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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by Neotko » March 1st, 2017, 2:20 pm

reibuehl wrote:Yes and the print cores, the NFC coded spools, the targeting the "professional market" with prices and marketing activities. That all by itself is nothing big but it adds up. All little tiny clouds that get closer and closer together and maybe in the end form a angry, dark rain cloud with a blue "S" on it...

Don't forget um3 signed by UM, so atm no one can build um3 firmwares. I suppose that will change when they release the stepfiles of um3, but that's still must happen to be true.

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by Izzy » March 1st, 2017, 2:37 pm

Ok K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid)
If we could get a flat bed that is stable, once you have set up your Nozzle to bed gap there would be no need to constantly check and adjust this gap.
If the glass plate is not thick enough to be ridged, increase the thickness until it is.
If the tolerance of the floatglass isn't good enough, grind it flat.
Once these two features have been sorted, you should only need to then set the nozzle gap once unless you are printing some aggressive filament with a brass nozzle, in which case invest in one of Ander's Ruby nozzles.

If you have duel nozzles then you should be able to get them level within a close tolerance.
come on most of the time we print at perhaps 100um layers (0.1mm), and what tolerance are you in general able to print to? 0.2? 0.1? 0.05? For XYZ, and what are industrial printers able to achieve? Anders will jump in on the tolerances for the SLS printer he is training on, but in general a tolerance of +-0.2mm for general components 20-150mm is acceptable.

So why go for a sub reliable bed levelling sensor? I would rather have a simple solution to take out the twist and to be able to level the bed to the axis with a flat and level plate, a nice simple 10mm glass plate ground flat and parallel to 0.02mm on both sides should do the trick.
Izzy.

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by nallath » March 1st, 2017, 2:50 pm

Neotko wrote: Don't forget um3 signed by UM, so atm no one can build um3 firmwares. I suppose that will change when they release the stepfiles of um3, but that's still must happen to be true.
Yes you can. Put in dev mode. You have full root access.

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by nallath » March 1st, 2017, 2:52 pm

Izzy wrote:Ok K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid)
I agree. I'm not a fan of the bed leveling. Some people love it, others hate it. I've disabled it on my machine.

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Neotko
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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by Neotko » March 1st, 2017, 3:08 pm

nallath wrote:
Neotko wrote: Don't forget um3 signed by UM, so atm no one can build um3 firmwares. I suppose that will change when they release the stepfiles of um3, but that's still must happen to be true.
Yes you can. Put in dev mode. You have full root access.
No nallath. I mean making a full firmware ready yo update by any user, like a tinkergnome version. Atm unless you know how, you can't install a bondtech or change the amount of material prime/retract. Ofc esteps could be changed by gcode if someone uses s3d, but not on cura since you would need to make a plugin to add the line on a um3 file.

Basically is open, but close since the firmware must be signed by um for the machine to load them, even on dev mode.

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by nallath » March 1st, 2017, 3:17 pm

Neotko wrote: Atm unless you know how, you can't install a bondtech or change the amount of material prime/retract..
Yes you can. Once you are in dev mode, all bets are off. I've added new services, changed code of running services & modified configuration files. I never used anything different than the terminal & the default root password.

The entire image is signed, for obvious reasons (Ensure that people who download an update can not be attacked by means of a man in the middle attack)
Last edited by nallath on March 1st, 2017, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Neotko
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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by Neotko » March 1st, 2017, 3:22 pm

nallath wrote:
Neotko wrote: Atm unless you know how, you can't install a bondtech or change the amount of material prime/retract..
Yes you can. Once you are in dev mode, all bets are off. I've added new services, changed code of running services & modified configuration files. I never used anything different than the terminal & the default root password.
So you can, download a firmware, use the usb and update the machine with it? Or does it need a signed file to do that?

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by nallath » March 1st, 2017, 3:25 pm

Neotko wrote:
nallath wrote:
Neotko wrote: Atm unless you know how, you can't install a bondtech or change the amount of material prime/retract..
Yes you can. Once you are in dev mode, all bets are off. I've added new services, changed code of running services & modified configuration files. I never used anything different than the terminal & the default root password.
So you can, download a firmware, use the usb and update the machine with it? Or does it need a signed file to do that?

There is a difference between changing the -entire- firmware and changing a part of the firmware. Changing the entire firmware requires a signed build (due to man in the middle attacks). Adding new bits of software to the build on there is possible, provided the machine is in dev mode.

You can clear the image on the SD card and change that as well. In that case you don't need signing.

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Neotko
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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by Neotko » March 1st, 2017, 4:01 pm

What sd card?? Mine is empty

Also that means exactly what I said. There can't be tinkergnome firmwares for um3.

Clearly UM is focus on business, it wouldn't surprise me if they delete umo+ in a year. Basically a machine that only a linux user can edit is a good way to stop tinkering or moda to be widely adopted. But hey, who cares...

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by Titus » March 1st, 2017, 5:03 pm

nallath wrote:I've typed a very long and maybe a bit frustrated reply to his blog. He has a bit of a naive look on patents & IP.
if you did, it is gone now. Hope you have it on cache!

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Re: A Tea between friends :-) How was Your Day

Post by LePaul » March 1st, 2017, 6:39 pm

I had read it and it was well written

What a petty fuck. Deleting a comment he doesn't like.

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