Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

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Solannis
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Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

Hello all. First timer posting here hoping to get some help. Technically, more/actual help.

SUMMARY
Situation: Trying to print a nice, hollow Darth Vader bust on my nice, new printer, but all I am getting is whatever the smallest number just north of zero is. Could use some help figuring out what the heck I am doing wrong. I am sure I am doing something bone-headed, but what?

DETAILS
1. I am the (used to be proud, not not so sure) owner of a brand new (well, three weeks and 5 test prints old) Anycubic Photon Mono X 6K printer (the limited edition Tribes version, not that that should matter.

2. I assembled per instructions, including tightening all the screws holding in the FEP to the resin vat and leveling the build plate to z=0 and made sure I could not pull the paper out from under it when in the home (zero) position

3. I printed the five aforementioned test prints (the AnyCubic cube, two runs of the test cylinders, and two of the AmeriLabs resolution test) just fine. Note: these were all pre-sliced files (.pwmb files).

4. I found myself a nice, pre-hollowed Darth Vader bust (in .STL form). Thought that would be a really cool first non-demo print to make.

5. Pulled it into Photon Workshop (version 2.1.29 -- the version that came with my printer on the USB flash drive)

6. Rotated the image to place it standing up proper (when the .STL is opened, Vader is lying face down on the build plate). Also made sure to use the "Use The Facet As Ground" checkbox.

7. Though I didn't think it was necessary, I used the Automatic Support function to add supports (the model didn't look like it would really need it since it didn't have large overhangs anywhere). Here is an image of what I had in Photon Workshop:
Image

8. Sliced the file (made a .pwmb), put it on the flash drive, put the flash drive in the printer, printed, and 8+ hours later, this is all I got.
Image
Stuck to the build plate: one support. One. Just one. I had at least 20 of those little buggers in the Photon Workshop window I was looking at. How did I only get ONE printed? How is that my mistake (other than buying this damn printer)?

Image
Better view of my 8+ hour accomplishment. I couldn't be more proud. :/

And, as a bonus, this is what my FEP looked like after I emptied the resin back into the container:
Image

I understand the difference between pre-sliced .pwmb files and trying to make one out of an .stl. Clearly this is something going wrong or something I am doing wrong during the slicing process (or, at the very least, in between importing the .stl and slicing to the .pwmb).

I would imagine that if I hadn't anchored the model/object properly, that FEP image above would be what I would expect to get (again, being a novice and not knowing any better; just using observational rationalization). But the Photon Workshop supports were all generated by them. I did NOTHING to them other than add them (again, automatically). So why just the one support and nothing else, not even other supports? I can see where the other supports would have been because they are now stuck to my FEP...along with my Vader bust.

If this printer is only good for printing the demo models, then I need to send it back. I have much more grandiose plans than that.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

For some reason, my hosted images are not showing, so I am providing the links (in their respective order above) here, along with the source of the .stl file I am trying to print in case anyone is curious what I am on about.

https://ibb.co/CmSvg89
https://ibb.co/d4JhH4p
https://ibb.co/3hjWNzB
https://ibb.co/j5dQCB8
https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various ... t-edgar_ch

BONUS SECTION
What is the generally accepted best practice on cleaning the resin vat and FEP film after a print? Which chemicals (if any), which cleaning mediums (e.g. paper, cloth)? How often should I expect to replace the FEP film?
Lez0
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Lez0 »

Hi Solannis.
I'll try and help you with your problem.
First I think it could be the model that is causing the problem. I'll download it and see if I get any problems.
Have you tried printing something else a bit smaller that doesn't need supports. This will show if the model is the problem.
When I ask the software to create supports it puts them on the whole model, so the model would be lifted from the plate with supports under it.
When I'm in the office I'll tell you what software I use, you can try that to see if it makes a difference.
I have only ever cleaned my FEP film when a print fails. I leave the resin in the vat and put a cover on it. My first FEP had to be replaced because of a hole. It was in a bad state but still produced good prints. If I were to clean it I would use a paper towel with alcohol on it.
Lez0
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Lez0 »

I looked at the model and it looked OK, apart from the fact it doesn't have a drain hole in the head or a hole on the base.
To explain it simply you can't print a basic tube unless you put a hole in the base. If you don't the resin will create a vacuum as it lifts and the walls will be sucked in. I am sure youtube has videos on this.
You should still have gotten something off the printer though.
The software I use is PrusaSlicer to add supports etc. I then export with supports as a stl into Chitubox to do the slicing.
I was recommended these programs, they work so I use them. Others will have there preference.
Les
Lez0
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Lez0 »

Try printing this without supports.
Attachments
MonoRook33.stl
(2.25 MiB) Downloaded 148 times
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

Thank you for the feedback, Lez0. Will try everything you suggested, including printing that MonoRook33.stl.

First off: I did print several smaller things. I kind of skipped over the detail in my initial post, but here is the complete log of what I have done so far.

1) Tried to print the Anycubic demo cube that ships with the printer. Result: Flat image stuck directly to the FEP Film. Emptied the resin in the vat back into the container through one of those paper filter strainers that comes with the printer, cleaned the FEP film as best as I could after popping off the print stuck to the film. Film looked a little cloudy but no apparent damage, dings, dents, or anything that would look like it would cause trouble.

2) Tried again one day later to print the demo cube. Same result as the first time. Followed the same clean-up steps as stated above.

3) Tried again a day later to print the same demo cube. Surprise, surprise: same result. Followed the same clean-up steps.

4) Reached out to Anycubic support. They told me to do four things:
a) Clean the FEP film (I've already been doing that)
b) Tighten the screws around the FEP film in the bottom of the resin vat base.
c) Re-home the Z on the printer using the instructions in a video they sent me (which varies a bit from what the in-box instructions and YouTube videos say, but I did it precisely that way anyway).
d) Print a demo model they sent me (XZZ6K.pwmb) which is basically a solid column on a stair-step series of supports with a thin base surrounding the supports.
Print worked.

5) Right after that test print which worked, I tried the Anycubic demo cube again. Worked perfectly this time. No errors or flaws. Performed the clean-up steps from (1) above.

6) One day later, I printed the Ameralabs Calibration Part Town Raft. I pulled the .STL into Photon Workshop, sliced it with no supports, created the .PWMB and printed it as is. Worked fine.

7) Printed another one of those Ameralabs parts. Actually, once I pulled it into Photon Workshop, I duplicated the object (so there were two) and turned the second one 90 degrees to see if there were any variations from two of the same objects printed at different angles. I could clearly see the object both in the Workshop window, in the Sliced flie preview, in the thumbnail the printer displays before printing, and in the slices the printer displays while printing those levels. For some reason, the second object (the one I duplicated) did not print. At all. Not even a FEP Film Klingon. Not sure what happened to it. The file clearly thinks it was there, and so did the printer, yet I got nada. The original printed perfectly.

8) Back to Photon Workshop, I opened a new project, reimported the Ameralabs test, rotated it, duplicated it, put the duplicate in the same orientation the original was in at first, sliced, saw both objects everywhere I did in (7) above, printed, same result: original object in new orientation printed, duplicate did not. Not anywhere. Performed clean-up steps.

9) Decided to re-try the columns (XZZ6K.pwmb), they worked same as last time.

10) Decided to give Darth a shot. Just pulled it in, no supports, printed, got a flat Vader (see new image) https://ibb.co/TMb99fQ. That was an ~9 hour print, so I cleaned up and called it a day.

11) Next day, decided to give Darth another shot. Same result as (10). Cleaned up, frustration level raising.

12) Next day, re-checked all the screws in the FEP film frame. Nothing needed tightening. Re-checked the printer home position: at home, paper did not slip at all when tugged, so I didn't need to re-do the zero-setting on the print platform. Tried Vader one more time: flat. Cleaned up.

13) Decided that maybe supports would help. Not sure why because, as I said earlier, I didn't see any overhangs that would cause a problem, but I did some automated supports anyway. This time, Vader wasn't flat, but he wasn't right either. (see new images)
https://ibb.co/54HHg1F
From this image, you can see the biggest defect in the print, plus the supports I printed. Additionally, you can see an almost straight through hole in the right side of his head (it's got a thin layer of resin still keeping it closed.

https://ibb.co/x2RjdBF
From this image, you can see defects in the upper helmet line and what looks like a small wing popping out over his right ear.

https://ibb.co/xFs6hzG
From this image, the model looks pretty solid, actually. You can see the "wing" a bit better in this shot, but overall this part of the model looks fine.

Of course, after this defective print, what looks like it was cut from the model was stuck to the FEP film, so it's not like it just disappeared. The smaller defects (like the helmet wing or the broken/torn helmet line), however, I am not sure why those occurred at all.

I figured I'd call it a day here again. Cleaned up.

14) This time, during clean up, I noticed that the FEP film had some stuff stuck to it and it was bending/warped in the center. Figuring this would account for SOME problems (though not necessarily the ones I was experiencing, I decided to purchase new FEP Films. Received them three days later, installed my first one, got it tighter than a snare drum, made sure all the screws were tight all the way around (the base ones as well as the FEP film holder ones). Not machine tighten, but definitely max hand tightened.

15) Printed the Vader that resulted in the single support column, was ready to toss the printer out the window, but decided to reach out here instead. Cleaned up as per usual.

So that brings us up to current. Haven't tried to use the printer since yesterday's failed Vader print.

Now for some follow-up questions:

1) How does one put a drain hole in a model? Which software package does one need for that? Also, I guess I figured that since the base was a hollow circle, that would be a drain hole, but since that is affixed to the build plate (or, at the very least, is supposed to be), that seals up that hole pretty good. So I would need another drain hole somewhere.

2) I think the thing I am not understanding from your description of a model collapsing in on itself is how the rest of the model wound up sticking to the FEP film. When I poured the resin out of the vat and back into the container, I put it through a strainer. There were no bits or pieces in the resin, so if it collapsed on itself, why was the stuff stuck to the FEP film entirely flat? Well, almost entirely flat anyway.

3) So you are using PrusaSlicer for supports and Chitubox to slice? I think I have Chitubox on here somewhere (I was trying to learn the Anycubic software first, but if something else works better, I guess I am good with that). So it sounds like you are saying that PrusaSlicer is better for supports but Chitubox is better for actual slicing. Is that a fair statement?
Lez0
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Lez0 »

Hi Something strange is going on here.
A couple of things. Change the memory stick that came with the printer, I've heard they not not good quality.
You may have the FEP too tight, did you use a bottle top when you fitted the new one?
Holes. you need one on the base of the model so the resin doesn't fill up the centre, and another on the top so the any resin left can drain out.
When the print lifts off the FEP you will here a popping sound as the print comes off the FEP, this cause a small vacuum in the centre of the print, if it's hollow, so you need to have a hole to stop this. I have printed a long tube, straight onto the plate, that had 2 x 3mm semi-circles on the base and about 2mm wall section. Even with these holes the outside near the base bowed in, it was slightly smaller that the rest of the tube.
PrusaSliser for supports Chitubox for adding holes and slicing.
Tube.jpg
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

Use a bottle top when I fitted the new one? Not sure what that means. Is there a good YouTube video on how to fit a new FEP film for my printer? Or shows me how a bottle top is involved? I will get the PrusaSlicer and try to learn Chitubox.
Lez0
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Lez0 »

This is the one I used to fit the FEP
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

I have ordered some additional supplies for cleaning the FEP film. As soon as they arrive, I will uninstall the current FEP film and install a fresh one, following the instructions in that video (would have been nice for the Anycubic tech support people to point me at that one when I was emailing with them).

As soon as I have done all that, I will attempt the MonoRook model you attached above. Thank you for the help, and will update this thread with results soon.
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

All right. Here we go. Replaced the FEP film as described in the YouTube video, filled up the resin vat, sliced the MonoRook33.stl in Photon Workshop (I need to set up Prusa and Chitubox for my printer, going to look for any guides on how to do that properly/what are the important settings to get right), made sure the base of the model was the facet on the build plate, and am now in print process. I have 1:42:18 left to print. Will let you know how it goes.
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

All right. After all that time, printed nothing. Going to empty the resin vat and see if there is another image resting on the FEP film. After that, I am going to try to re-print the Anycubic cube. Maybe it's the Photon Workshop that's the problem. Maybe it's not setting up/slicing the image properly. Going to go look for those Chitubox settings for my printer now.
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

Sure enough: cleaning out toe resin vat exposed a small circle where the rook should have been, stuck to the bottom of the vat.

Okay, Chitubox now has an actual setting for my specific printer (It did not a few weeks ago when I first got the printer). So I pulled in the same MonoRook33.stl into Chitubox and sliced it there. Going to try printing that with no other changes to the printer. We will see what that yields.

I am running out of ideas.
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

Moment of truth time. Drum roll, please.

Nada.

Probably just another spot on the FEP film, if I had to guess. I am too demotivated to even empty the resin vat to find out right now. Will do it tomorrow after I've gotten some sleep.

Okay, I really don't know where to go from here. Clearly the printer is trying to do something, but it's not ever getting to the build plate. I checked the calibration on the build plate before printing. When sent to home, I was unable to easily tug or slide the paper around, so I know it's not calibration of the build plate. I know it's not the FEP film being too loose or too tight because I followed the installation instructions from the video (including the bottle cap). The film was loose when I put the frame into the bottom trench of the FEP and saw it tighten correctly as I screwed it in. I know all the screws (the ones holding the film in between the two frames together and the ones holding the frames to the vat) were hand-tight, so it could not have been a loose film. So what am I doing wrong here? I cannot believe it is this difficult to get this thing to generate one simple print. Is it possible that there is something else wrong with the printer? This just makes no sense.
Lez0
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Lez0 »

Wow that is a bummer.
Have you tried different memory sticks, that's about the only thing I can think of.
I've had problems with mine on both printers.
Lez
Solannis
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Re: Frustrated newbie ready to toss his printer out a window

Post by Solannis »

Actually, now that you mention it, I have tried a different flash drive. I could not get the machine to read it at al at first. A quick Google search showed that I had the format right (FAT32) but had the partition format wrong (needs to be MBR, had GPT). Fixed that and now it reads just fine. Will try another print with the new flash drive.

Off the top of my head, being new to this and all, I cannot imagine why the quality of the flash drive would make a difference here. I certainly understand the difference in quality between better and worse flash drives. I've seen corrupted flash drives fail and have lost data to a new flash drive that just "went bad" all of a sudden (and shortly after purchase, no less), and am now pretty careful with selecting and buying new ones (and I back them up, too). As far as printing goes, though, the file is the file is the file, no? Either you have it or you don't. I would presume the printer is smart enough to know that if it cannot read the file from the flash drive , it would at least produce an error on the LCD display on the front of the printer indicating was much (Error reading file, Unable to read file, File data corrupted, or even just a simple "File error"). So without seeing any error messages, I would presume the printer at least THINKS it can read the flash drive. So if it can read the flash drive, what would the quality of the flash drive have to do with a print? Especially where it prints to the FEP film and not to the build plate.
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